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In this Navigating Nourishment Podcast, Dr. Kristopher Sparacino, an acupuncturist and owner of Clear River Acupuncture, discusses his holistic approach to health and wellness, emphasizing the importance of proactive care. He explains the foundations of Chinese medicine, including Qigong, nutrition, and acupuncture, and details the benefits of acupuncture for pain, insomnia, fertility and more. Dr. Sparacino highlights the need for regular treatments and the integration of various modalities like cupping and moxibustion. He stresses the importance of self-cultivation and rest, and advocates for wellness routines that include acupuncture, especially during seasonal transitions. We underscore the value of investing in one’s health and the potential cost savings of preventive care.
We encourage you to reach out to Dr. Kris and book an appointment for your well-being.
Bio
Dr. Kristopher Sparacino, DACM, L.Ac., is the owner of Clear River Acupuncture, Lincroft, NJ and a Doctor of Chinese Medicine, licensed in the state of New Jersey; nationally board certified in Acupuncture.
His personal experience with acupuncture led him to complete the 5-year Masters and 2-year Doctoral programs at The Eastern School of Acupuncture and Pacific College of Health and Science, respectively.
Dr. Kris is also formally trained in Cupping, Cranial Sacral Therapy, Reiki, Moxibustion, Chinese Herbal Medicine, Essential Oil Acutherapy, Theta Energy Healing, Medical Qi Gong, Qi Gong & Tai Chi Exercise, Yoga, and Meditation.
Dr. Kris strives for an organic and intuitive approach to guide his treatments. He works with his patients’ not only to treat their symptoms but also to discover the root of their ailment and bring them back into balance. Dr. Kris continues self-cultivation daily by way of Meditation, Yoga, and Qi Gong exercise.
Dr. Kris is an active practitioner with The Wellness Hub of NJ sharing many of his gifts including monthly sound bowl, meditation and Qi Gong.
Transcript
Edited for readability
Wendy 00:13
Debbie and I are so curious about exploring different kinds of treatments and modalities around health and wellness. And so we’re super excited to have Kris with us today,
Debbie 00:25
Welcome to our podcast, Navigating Nourishment. This is Dr Kristopher sparchino. He’s an acupuncturist, and he’s the owner of Clear River Acupuncture in Lincroft. He’s a doctor of Chinese medicine, and he’s licensed here in New Jersey. He is a wonderful practitioner. I use him myself. I look forward to my appointments with him, because it’s such a zen place, and I feel better when I leave. It’s just wonderful. So he has a lot of training. He has a five year master’s degree and two year doctoral program, so he knows what he’s doing. And you went to the eastern School of acupuncture and the Pacific College of Health and Science for both of those degrees, right? Yes. (Kris)
Besides acupuncture, you do amazing other things too. You’re trained in cupping and cranial sacral therapy, Reiki, moxibustion, Chinese herbal medicine and acutherapy with essential oils, Qigong and Tai Chi, and yoga and meditation, and there’s probably something I’m missing there, too.
We love what you do, and we love that you’re so holistic in the way that we are, that you don’t look at people just for their symptoms. You look at them as a whole person and want to know what’s behind the problems that people come to you with and it’s not just about treating those symptoms. We have to look at people as a whole. And so I think that’s why we feel like we’re in sync with you as well.
Wendy 02:12
I remember the first time you came to our space and we had the open house to introduce your singing bowls and Crystal bowls and Tibetan bowls, and your Qigong here. Your energy is wonderful. And because you practice all of these things, you’re able to show up with the grounded beautiful energy.
Kris 02:43
Oh, wow – I am humbled by that introduction. Yeah, I’m glad to know you guys too. It’s definitely like, opened me up to, I mean, your space is gorgeous. And so right away, when I was introduced to the space, I was like, Yeah, I would love to work in this space and work with these wonderful women.
This idea that we need to get back to holistic thought and holistic care, and wellness means we don’t want to wait! You don’t have to wait to see your holistic practitioner till you are sick – that’s the idea. Put acupuncture on a schedule, let it be a part of your routine. Good habits make up your wellness. So definitely acupuncture and some of those other modalities we spoke about are a part of that. I started studying about 10 years ago and have been practicing ever since. And I studied some things before that that got me into it. The Qigong and Tai Chi portion actually came before acupuncture.
Chinese medicine is this umbrella for five modalities.
So what we put in our body and how we move our body, this is the foundation of our health. This is the foundation in Chinese medicine as well. And it’s sort of overlooked, right? Because, again, especially in this country, we say- just go to your acupuncturist when you’re sick. But they should also be giving you advice by prescribing Qigong and maybe even in nutrition. So those are two of the foundational parts of Chinese medicine.
And then we have the other three: herbal medicine which mimics pharmacology of pharmaceuticals, acupuncture itself, and massage. It’s a whole medical system. You learn all five of those parts in school. Acupuncture is the focus. I think the profession is going doctoral soon, most schools are offering a doctoral part of the program, and that fills in some of the gaps for the Western are really how to do research, how to evaluate research, for future treatments, for prescriptions. The masters and the doctoral programs are super close right now -it’s only a few 100 hours difference and so we have a lot of people converting to the doctorate. But eventually it’ll go the way of physical therapists, where they’re just all doctors coming out of school. But originally it’s a three year program, and then you can add the herbs. Herbs can be a separate study. And so there’s a couple different levels to the doctorate. And so if you have herbs, it’s a different doctorate as well. The acupoint oil therapies are continuing educaiton for us to keep up our licenses at 15 hours a year. We recertify every four years, 60 hours total. That includes safety and ethics. If you’re an herbalist, that’ll include some herbal training, usually some hands-on training, and then some online training.
Wendy 07:01
So one of the things you mentioned before is moxibustion. What is that? I’ve never heard that term before.
Kris 07:06
It’s an herb. Mugwort is the common name. So it’s probably growing in your yard right now. You actually put this on the end of a needle (there are a lot of different ways to use it), but the original main form was you put it on the end of a needle, or you can take a little pinch of it on it, on the skin, directly on the skin, and then you use an incense stick to light it and it smokes like an incense with an ember, and that drives heat down into an acupuncture point. It also is herbal medicine. You can use it in decoction for herbal teas, and it’s what’s considered a pure Yang substance. This is maybe a broader topic of Yin and Yang and those foundations within Chinese medicine. And Yang is the form of energy that flows through the acupuncture channels. So it’s a less modern version, but this is sort of the original way it’s used. It’s used a lot overseas and in Japan. They’ve written a bunch on moxibustion and how it’s used. It’s a great treatment. I use it more during winter and more with certain conditions.
Wendy 08:48
So I love what you said earlier, too. I just want to hit on this a little bit more, because I think this is what Debbie and I hope our jobs are, is leading people to prevention instead of trying to be the reactionary world that we’re in right now with our health. We wish so much for our health system to pay for these things or cover them, so that we’re not on the other side saying, How did this happen to me? What happened to get me to this place. So I just want to appreciate the idea to:
Use acupuncture as prevention, not just when we’re sick.
09:32 Kris
100% – I’m going to structure something where people can come in on a schedule, maybe reduced rates for packages or a monthly subscription, because that’s really how it’s used most effectively.
So Wendy, I love that statement about being reactionary. The place that we’re in now. We’re reactionary on all levels right now, I totally agree, and the way to reduce stress in your life is to be more proactive. You know, it’s really important to be an advocate for yourself, learn to be proactive with your health. And on a daily basis, it’s a struggle. It’s definitely a struggle, because everybody is so busy, myself included, we’re all running around just at the mercy of, you know, the environment we’re in. And so, yeah, that reactionary word even just really struck a chord with me. I really appreciate that.
Back to a wellness type of program I’m creating. The unfortunate thing is that a lot of people don’t think insurance covers acupuncture. But I gotta tell everybody – call your insurance company, because they may cover it. There’s lots of good benefits out there. Most state workers have it and large companies actually offer it. You can get some Medicare towards it too, but you gotta check. I do the billing for my patients who have insurance. If you have HSA, that’s a way to allocate some funds towards a wellness program.
Debbie 11:42
I want to back up here, because some people who are listening may not even know exactly what acupuncture is. Let’s just say someone only knows it has to do with needles. What’s that mean? What does it do?
Kris 12:16
I love it – this is the biggest question. And, you know, we’re in the West, we’re in the US, and it is gaining more traction here, and insurance companies are participating more, and that educates the public and all this stuff, but it’s used really widely in Europe, obviously, China, Japan, Korea, Tibet, and it’s a part of the culture there, but it’s not a part of the culture here, right? And, in fact, as little kids, we go and we get our inoculations and then we get phobias. I actually have patients who are needle phobic, but because it helps them so much, they keep coming in. And we can actually structure breathing to calm you down on the table before and as the needles go in, but I think we have this stigma against needles, so absolutely. So we got to dispel some myths here right? The needles are wire. They’re not hollow needles. We may, in the future, actually be able to inject medicine into the body as acupunctures, but not right now. But either way, that’s not acupuncture. That’s a different type of therapy. So we are using a wire needle. It’s super small. The biggest question get still all the time, especially with new patients, is it going to hurt? It really does not hurt.
Wendy 13:35
It does not hurt. You’re right.
Debbie 13:40
Sometimes you don’t even feel it at all. I’d say most of the time, you don’t.
Kris 13:46
So the practitioner is going to go over the body and press around and find these key points, and then they’re going to put a little straw with a needle and press it on the skin, tap the needle, and it goes in. So the needle is inserted really quickly, and you barely feel a thing.
What do you want to use acupuncture for?
So, again, it’s a part of Chinese medicine so it’s really a part of this holistic care system. But you can also use it when you’re sick, when you’re in pain. There’s lots of studies to show how effective it is on pain, insomnia, and acid reflux. So it’s got this broad range, because, again, it’s a part of Chinese medicine. That was the whole healthcare system in China for 1000s of years, right? We didn’t have anything else. We had herbs and we had massages and we had acupuncture. So what most people know it for is pain. That’s what most acupuncturists are kind of trained in and end up doing. That’s what insurance typically pays for, is pain syndromes. So it works great for pain syndromes, tendonitis, TMJ, even headaches. Works really well with tension headaches and migraines, any type of joint pain, musculoskeletal pain, basically, that’s that’s the main thing.
But again, all these other conditions, even emotional, like mild anxiety and depression, even if you’re medicated, it’s maybe a little more difficult, because then we have the medicine doing something as well in the body, but you can still treat and reduce panic attacks, the intensity of them, the longevity of them, the frequency of them, all with acupuncture. So really, I mean, I can’t say enough about it. I’ve seen it work. I’ve been doing it for 10 years.
Wendy 16:00
And so at its core, you’re moving energy in the body, correct? That’s perhaps stagnant and causing the pain or causing the anxiety, or, in effect, altering the body in some way that is not peaceful. Is that right?
Kris 16:20
This is, this is the crux of it in the original understanding of Chinese medicine and, you know, I don’t want to necessarily bring that forward and retrofit it to today’s understanding – was the original understanding. And there is an aspect of that. So there is an aspect of Chinese medicine as the whole being energetic medicine, and we’re putting our efforts forth, our energy forth, to heal the body. So even in massage, if you think of massage, you know, we’re putting attention and effort towards a part of the body. You’re putting energy into that part of the body. And so if you’re working on the upper back with a patient as a massage therapist, let’s say you may spend more time there, right? More effort goes towards loosening those muscles up. So, similar ideas, where do we put our efforts forth? How do we remind the body? This is sort of an energetic understanding. How do we remind the body to go back there and make the repair? And so this is your own chemistry that we’re using. Right? We have all these endogenous chemicals that create the way our bodies feel and our emotional state and everything. This is really being studied heavily in neuroscience right now. So all the different chemistry that goes into how we feel on a daily basis. But there’s also the chemistry in the musculoskeletal system at play too. We’re able to actually affect that as well.
We’re putting effort forth to allow your body to remember or remind it to make a repair in certain areas of the body.
So we concentrate on needles. It’s called a local treatment. But we’re also using these older theories of energy moving and channels and acupuncture points. It’s a whole separate anatomy that we study. So we study the Western anatomy as acupuncturists and we study Eastern anatomy as well. We study Western physiology and we study Western pathophysiology. So we can talk in terms of a Western dysfunction. And then we make a little translation and bring it over into Chinese medicine and use those techniques that are sort of the tried and true techniques. And I find, if I’m using both I do local and distal treatment. It’s almost like a root and branch concept where, you know, we’re always looking for what’s going on systematically, like, what’s the root cause of this, you know, is this the mental state of the patient? Is this the diet of the patient? You guys know, it’s everything. I mean, really, you guys are the foundation, right? It’s the same idea. So we can look at both sides of that coin, you know, it’s really two sides of the same coin. So then, from the Western perspective, when we put a needle in, we’re stimulating nerve activity in an area which then travels up the spinal cord into the brain, creating nerve activity in the brain, we’re loosening muscle from fascia, sometimes the fascia – that film or bag around the muscle gets tight, it gets inflamed. It needs to be separated. And you can do that with a manual manipulation with your hands like a massage therapist would. You can do that with the cups. You can do that with needles, and then it’s measured when, when you put a needle into an area of the body, it dilates blood vessels and it releases pain relieving chemicals. So we know, to a degree, that the physiology is also changing where the needle goes. So this is like we’re marrying up the two. It’s a beautiful time in Chinese medicine, because we’re marrying up to two understandings. And if you use both, I really find that that’s the ultimate treatment. It gets people better faster.
Wendy 20:02
There was a word you used in your bio that this discussion reminded me of – you called it self cultivation. You’re practicing self cultivation. Can you describe that for the audience?
Kris 20:20
It’s funny because that word, in the last like three or four years, has come up more and more for me as to what it means. So it’s really in the context of one of the foundations of Chinese medicine, again, this Qigong, this exercise, but it can be applied to anywhere. We talk about practice and cultivation. We talk about Qigong, which is energy work.
Self cultivation is about putting effort forth to develop yourself.
And that can happen on all different levels. What I’m speaking about is more the cultivation of the energy within the body. So we can cultivate our own energy. We can change the chemistry of our body with Qigong exercise, with meditation, with yoga, with breathing exercises. We can change our mental state and change our physical state. And so that, to me, has been sort of the foundation of my personal life, which then informs my professional life. So the more and more you can cultivate, the better you feel. I found all sorts of benefits. I mean, I feel better. It’s not necessarily a strength practice. But there’s a different type of strength that forms from within. It is also a confidence and a strength, you know, maybe it’s almost like building self esteem, in a way, because you, you come into your personal power. So there’s a lot to that term. And again, it could be applied to the different areas of life and of Chinese medicine.
Wendy 22:02
Thank you. I like the word. I’m interested.
Kris 22:05
It’s just, we’ve got to put all our efforts into ourselves and be the best we can. It’s the metaphor when you are in a plane and putting the mask on you first before your neighbor. I struggle with that, especially in the beginning working in a holistic health kind of setting, you want to give everything to your patients, right? And you’ll quickly just get exhausted and you’re not setting the right example. If you’re telling people and sharing with people that you do all this walking, you do the self-cultivation yourself, you have a better chance of staying healthy and having that overflow for the people you’re working with. Super important.
Debbie 22:51
Absolutely. This is all part of how it is holistic, not only for the practice there, but the patients and the clients – as we always say, it’s not just one thing. So yes, we want people to try acupuncture and the other modalities that you do, as a part of the whole portfolio of how you take care of yourself. We’re conditioned to think that if we do this one thing that it’s going to solve all my problems. And as part of health and wellness coaches, we’re almost like the broker of wellness, and share with our clients: we have Kris who does acupuncture and other traditional types of medicine, and we have this person who does massage, and we have this person who does this other thing…
It brings me back to 24 years ago, when I was trying to get pregnant and I couldn’t, and there was no explanation. I was young, I was healthy. There was nothing wrong with my physiology that any doctor could tell me. So I made my diet even better and still didn’t get pregnant. And then I went to an acupuncture Doctor who did acupuncture and herbal medicine. And who knows if that was the tipping point? But we know it was all of those things, and the acupuncture and the herbal medicine. So, you know, I’ve often told that story, oh, acupuncture helped me get pregnant. It’s not the whole story. It ‘definitely, probably, maybe’ tipped it over the edge to make it happen – but it was also all the other things that I was doing.
Kris 25:11
There’s so much in what you just said, and it’s really true and fairly brilliant. It’s all of it and so do we know which thing kind of pushed you over the edge? It was all of it. It truly is that moment in time that’s when you were meant to have everything kind of come together, as far as your life and this pregnancy and everything, right? I have people come in to me for fertility, and they have maybe irregular menstruation up until then. And within three months, even without herbs, and herbs makes it even more potent and maybe even speeds it up. Within three months, the period is corrected and harmonized again, and we can move forward. It’s been pretty amazing. People come in and a couple treatments later they’re pregnant. But to your point, they’ve done the dietary change, which can take weeks or months. They’ve done supplementation but we are so stressed out when we’re trying to get pregnant. The whole house is stressed out because trying to get pregnant is so important. And all our efforts are there but the stress is almost counter productive because the body takes on all this added stress, and now we’re not resting properly, and all these other things. The chemistry isn’t right. So it’s true, you put them all together, and that’s when you have optimal health. That’s what this is all about, all these different branches coming together.
Wendy 27:01
You just brought up rest and I feel like in our groups, lately, we’ve been talking about this idea that society doesn’t think that rest is ok. Debbie and I just turned 55 and rest is becoming more of a priority – but it comes under societal scrutiny. Rest has not been prescribed for the average person. It’s more like ‘what have you done for me lately and what are you doing to contribute to society?’ This weekend, I practiced resting because we had a lot of rain, I couldn’t garden or be outside and I noticed I did sleep better. I woke up today more refreshed. I’m like, happy Monday! I wonder where I can apply that rest idea more in my life?
Kris 28:03
Wonderful point. Because it’s one of these things that we’re so programmed we’ve never been taught the importance. I fall into this myself, and I know these principles, or I think I know these principles, but I think it was two, three weeks ago. We had a rainy Sunday. I forget when it wasn’t this particular weekend, and I did nothing all day, and I felt guilty, right, right? Because I did nothing all day. Maybe it was a beautiful day, and I didn’t make use of the beautiful day or something like that. The point is, honor the way you feel, honor your body. And if you have to retreat a little bit and take some rest, what’s so bad about that? Like you say, you come out of the gate this morning and you’re feeling that much better, and you’re so much more ready to go. We gotta give ourselves permission to have time to just step back from everything and rest.
Debbie 29:01
I have to say, rest is one of my favorite parts of the acupuncture treatment, because you literally can’t move. You’ve got a dark, warm room and it’s beautiful. It’s one of the most beautiful things.
Kris 29:26
I love it. It’s super important. I have a lot of patients that are teachers going back to school and new mothers where I hear that the most, because it’s like, you don’t get a second to yourself except when you come to acupuncture. Typically, anybody I’ve seen throughout their pregnancy, they’ll come in after – not as quickly as I would hope but that’s ok – three to six months down the road. I say just come back and treat yourself, because it’s really important.
Back in the day, you had extended family around, and in China, they use herbs after pregnancy, big time, because a lot of replenishment needs to happen. It’s such an intense experience for the body. So they got the mother and and father and mother and father in law in the house, potentially cooking herbs and doing treatments and helping you. It takes a village, right? And we don’t really have that as much anymore. So I typically don’t see people right after pregnancy. We kind of go down this little rabbit hole here of treating pregnant, postpartum women, but I don’t typically see them for another three months or six months, right? And I understand that this is what happens because we don’t have that extended network. You feel like you can’t step away. But as soon as you can get back to your treatments, and treat yourself well, do it! And yes, tell your kids where you’re going – to treat yourself well, because you will influence them to treat themselves well later.
Wendy 31:03
Good example. Debbie talks about that being the example for your kids, not the mom- martyrdom. The example of martyrdom is kind of backwards thinking. Says the one who doesn’t have kids!
Debbie 31:24
But I think where you’re going with that is that mothers really appreciate that resting time in the acupuncture.
Kris 31:28
Thank you. There was an initial point to that yes, and that’s because what you just said is what I hear on the table all the time. It’s like, Ah, this is the only free hour of my week. Wow. Seven days, 24 hours a day. Do the math, like one hour a week they get! oh no – you need more than that. But whatever you can get, take it, right? We all need to decompress.
Debbie 32:00
Exactly. That brings me to say, anybody who hasn’t had an acupuncture treatment, let’s explain what you do when they walk into your door. What happens during the hour?
Kris 32:13
Typically, for treatment, at least the initial treatment, you’re going to be with your practitioner, most likely an hour. I’m trying to use some sort of global understanding here, right? Because everybody is very different, just like any doctor you see. But typically you’re going to have a phone consult before, but either way, you’re going to fill out some paperwork when you come into the office. It’s typically pretty robust. We’re asking the 10 questions in Chinese medicine, a traditional training includes that, and even the modern training includes that. So you’re going to get a questionnaire, we’re going to go through the full health history. History becomes very important, especially when you’re looking for long term care and sort of habitual needs to have your situation change.
After that, then you’ll talk a little bit about that questionnaire. Then we’ll get you on the table. So you’re typically on a nice, comfortable massage table. I use a lot of heat with patients, so heat lamps and heat blankets and things like this. We try to keep you warm, because typically, laying down, you get a little cooler. We’re evaluating what you want to work on. We usually rank those things you want to work on: Top 1, 2 and 3 things. We try to hone that to what’s the most immediate need. So we’re almost triaging the treatment here, and then we’re going to lay down and apply needles.
Typically, you’re rolling up sleeves and wearing shorts, hopefully. And then you can get some of the points around the larger joints. If we’re working on low back. We may roll the shirt up. We may use drapery and things like this. But otherwise, you’re typically clothed. We may use oils. I use essential oils in my treatment all the time. So we’re going to use a form of aromatherapy – accupoint therapy. So we’re actually putting oils on the acupuncture point. I’ve been trained that way. I find that it really helps.
We may be using cups during the treatment, or have a separate treatment for cupping (will talk about that in a second). We can use some moxibus that we mentioned before, and then palpation. Usually I’m kind of pressing on these acupuncture points, on these key muscle groups, or specific muscles. You describe a pain syndrome to me, and we’re going to go to that muscle group and we’re going to find out where exactly is this pain coming from. So we do a little bit of that. We may do some manual work at that time, helping the body relax, and then the needles do their job. We’ve been doing this for 10-15 minutes and we put the needles in and I usually step out of the room. Give you some free time. Music is playing. Aromatherapy is going.
It’s a nice, quiet environment where you can just relax. We can talk about breathing and everything too during treatment, and that even bolsters the treatment. If you already have some breathing techniques or meditative techniques, we can add some of that and it’ll all work together and be nice. I’ll come back and check on you maybe midway or at the end, pull the needles, and that’s that. You hopefully evaluate how you feel over the next few days. If you’re in an acute situation, I’ll see you twice a week. You could see a person up to even three times a week, and then otherwise, I’m seeing you once a week, typically. And we want to get you to a point where, again, it’s just wellness.
So a wellness routine might be 12 to six times a year. And if you’re really in perfect health and you’re doing all this other stuff in your own personal practice, you know you’re doing your self cultivation across all levels in your personal life. Come see me four times a year. This would be the optimal situation. Every time the season changes, you get your acupuncture, get your herbs, and have a couple treatments. Scientifically, fall and spring especially, come in before your allergies kick in. So come in in August or September, come in March before the allergy seasons kick in. And you will see your allergies will just be so much better. Frequency and intensity all goes down. It’s terrific.
Debbie 36:42
Especially good. I agree about spring and fall, because those are especially disruptive transitions for a lot of people. It’s a difficult time for us emotionally, physically, mentally. We see it in our clients and ourselves every year. Everyone says: I don’t know what’s going on. Everything’s kind of wonky. And we’re like, man, yeah!
Kris 37:06
There’s the fall transition, right? We have all that excitement from summer coming to an end, and fall is the time of letting go. It’s this grieving sort of period. So we kind of grieve the height of the sun going down in a natural sense, but then we get back to school and chaos. With kids or no kids you have back to school time. Even if you don’t have kids, you’re driving around on the road and there are buses and the whole thing is off. It doesn’t matter who you are. You’re not immune from society changing its schedules. Those are the two most tumultuous seasons.
I hopefully went through that question: Here’s what a treatment looks like. The treatments are either laying down or on your back, facing up. It could be in a chair. It could be laying on your side. All depends on what’s going on. Third trimester pregnant women, we’re going to have them on their sides, nice and comfy with a blanket with a bolster between their knees, this type of thing. So we can do treatment in lots of different ways. It all depends on what you’re coming in for.
Debbie 38:25
So, what are some of the more successful – in research and studies and all that – what are some of the more successful things that acupuncture is for? Though, we know it’s great for everything. We know that it should be a part of your wellness package. But if we can get some people motivated to try it – what else?
Kris 38:53
When you study acupuncture, it’s science and art. So there are ways to configure the points and use your hands on the human body to get it to change, but we do that from a scientific standpoint. So we study in the West. We also study in the East all the anatomies, the physiologies, all these things, and then we put it all together, and that’s what acupuncture is. So I love people who want to know what is really happening.
The biggest studies are on pain and pain syndromes. And that’s why you have the health insurance companies tend to take cues from scientific study, where they’re going to put their money, as far as training is concerned. So pain syndrome is a big one. So again, needles go into the body, enkephalins and endorphins are released – these are pain relieving chemicals at the needle site that remain or sustains itself for several minutes afterwards. Same thing with cupping. This is the big thing. So the cup draws the tissue up into the cup. You use a vacuum to do this. You could do it with fire or a pump. I usually use the pump. It’s just quicker and easier, but that opens up the capillaries near the surface of the skin. That’s why we get a little mark. It allows lymph tissue to move, because it’s manipulating the lymph nodes and the lymph system, and that keeps them dilated up to 20 minutes after treatment, so that continued blood flow is what’s happening.
There’s plenty of scientifically documented positive outcomes. These are the most well documented cases for what it works for. So I mean, just on that alone, that you can increase blood flow in key areas of the body right there, is going to improve your health. So another major study, this is something we got in the master’s program, we learned about is it’s working in conjunction with Clomid to try to get pregnant. They did a pretty strong study. I forget when, and I kind of wish I had some of these things on hand, you know, these documents, but we studied that in school. Again, it’s 10 years ago, so my apologies, but I believe it was, let’s just say it was 20% because I think it’s more than that. So I’m going to undersell it a little bit, but the increase in efficacy with Clomid, when using acupuncture in conjunction, an increase in pregnancy 15 to 20% and again, I think it was more than, I think it was really, actually closer to 30 and a strong study, double blind and placebo group or control group.
I don’t know if it’s gotten into the common landscape of understanding. It’s certainly into the insurance landscape a little bit, perhaps not enough, as I would like, but there are some really strong studies. So pain is the main thing. And then even this with pregnancy and using it with Clomid, those are the two big ones.
So you know to dial back just really quickly to treatment. We know what a treatment looks like. I wanted to mention a course of treatment. So we talked about maybe a wellness program where you’re coming in once a month, or once every other month. That’s really if you’re in good health, a great wellness program is two times a month. That’s where a lot of people end up if they have some sort of chronic disease.
So I have MS patients, and patients with blood cancers and lyme that went untreated, young and is still active, or goes into remission, but then becomes active. Those sorts of patients. I see them twice a month, typically. Also, because fibromyalgia patients are dealing more with constant pain, joint pain, nerve pain, I see them more often. But otherwise, when you come in, let’s say it was low back. And this is kind of what got me into acupuncture. It works amazingly for the low back. A lot of studies on that, that’s what Medicare actually covers for some low back treatment, because the studies are so strong. If you have low back pain and you’re having trouble walking, you’re out of work. Now this is a really acute situation, so I want to see you twice a week, talking about a course of treatment, or a treatment plan. I want to see you twice a week, at least two or three weeks in a row. Because those six treatments in the first three weeks are really going to speed up healing.
People ask, how many treatments do I have to get? You know, especially if they’re going to pay out of pocket, it becomes time and money. It’s really hard to tell. Unfortunately, if there’s no set rules here, because your body is going to, depending on how long the condition has been there, it could be a pretty long time to unravel it, right? And so what we’re talking about is six to 10 treatments on average. That’s typically what I tell people, six to 10 treatments average.
Wendy 44:35
And just to stay with that idea for a moment about wanting so much for the first knee jerk reaction for people when they hear the cost of a program to not tie their health outcome to out of pocket…aren’t we spending so much money on silly things? If we could just step back and widen the lens of what we’re spending money on and how our health gives us the chance to feel better, be better, be happier, be contributing to society, or just being a nice neighbor, or a kind human because you aren’t in pain. I can’t imagine why people wouldn’t make the investment in themselves, just because we’ve been programmed this way that if it’s not covered, I’m not worth it. And I wanted to bring it up because I want to change people’s minds. I want people to rethink what they’re spending their money on. And the value of our health is so critical to our happiness.
Debbie 45:58
Absolutely
Kris 45:59
There’s so many points in there that we could all drill down on and expand and it’s like, but that was such a concise way to say, really, like, three or four different things, so many layers to that statement. And it really is so important. This is something you want to budget for if you have to, because you’re worth it. It goes back to your self worth. And when I first started, I’m asking people to spend their time, their money, right? And what is, what is money? Money is your historical time. It’s still your efforts, it’s just in the past, right? So I’m asking you to do that with me. And definitely for the first couple years, it was a struggle. I have to find a price point that matches my business, that allows me to live and pay my bills. And that could be depending on the area you’re in and the cost that you have for your office. It goes back to that point of like you have to treat yourself well first. And we spend money on all these other kinds of frivolous things.
Debbie 47:18
Well, speaking of that, I had a gift card for dinner out for my birthday on Friday, and thank goodness for the gift card, because dinner cost $100 for two of us. You could spend even more than that. We didn’t even have alcohol, so it was $100 for one appetizer and two entrees. And it wasn’t even phenomenal and an acupuncture treatment is less than that.
Kris 47:53
Wow, yeah. It’s one of those things. You have to have insurance, obviously, or so we’re taught, and I believe that you need insurance- because healthcare costs a lot of money. We’re spending all this money on our premiums. We may or may not go to our physicians to get regular checkups and do the wellness thing. There is some money allocated in your insurance for wellness. It’s typically for Western physicians, but it’s there. The concept is there. We don’t, maybe use it as much as we should. I do both. I see my physician once or twice a year, blood work and the whole thing. So you need to do this. But then after that, it’s like, at least, kind of explain it this way too.
At least if you’re spending money with me, you’re spending time with me, we’re going to talk about your health, we’re going to coach a little bit on health and daily activities and what to look at. At least, I’ll give you a direction, at least, if you want to learn more about what you should be doing each day and you’re actually getting a treatment. You know, we’re doing massage on the table, we’re doing heat therapies, we’re cupping, we’re putting the needles in, and we’re getting that chemistry to start to change. So at least you’re putting your premiums away every month, and you kind of have to do that. But there are a lot of people not getting anything for that. Which is the problem. We have to wait till we’re really sick or in pain or out of work. Here’s the big thing. Look at it this way, if you come to see me, especially if you have your own business and you have to generate your own sort of income or you’re not on a salary or anything. I’ll save you days for work, so it pays dividends.
Debbie 49:55
So we can look at it that way too. Saves you money. Talk to your employer.
49:58
Tell your employer you want membership with your acupuncture.
Debbie 50:17
Okay, let’s justify it, because there’s a lot of ways to do so.
Wendy 50:21
Now, before I forget, I want to give a shout out to our co-collaborator of The Wellness Hub of New Jersey, Yvonne Cangelosi, who introduced us to you and brought you into this space to do your Qigong and your monthly sound sound bowls and that sort of thing. So we want to definitely give a shout out to her for connecting us.
Kris 50:45
I love that. Yeah, yeah. It’s really been brilliant knowing her, meeting her and and she’s helping me to realize, by way of you guys and your space – this ability to share that branch of Chinese medicine, which is harder to share in the clinic. You know, people come to the clinic. They’re here for other things. So it’s allowed me to broaden my scope of work with people on that level and meet people in your space and meet you guys. Really just meeting you guys, it was really important, because now I have trusted people for nutritional advice, which is the branch that I am, by far the weakest in and on a lot of different levels – coaching is about accountability, right? It’s a daily basis. We have a choice to put good and bad things into our body, and unless we know what those things should be, we’re held accountable for them.
So it’s really hard for me to get to that branch of Chinese medicine within my space. I’m speaking from a different perspective, which is not the conventional way. So at least you guys can translate maybe the complexity of it and make it more palatable and make it simpler, and then work with people to keep them accountable. It’s brilliant. I’m so grateful because now I can work with that Qigong piece, and work with people and meet people, and now I have this beautiful referral that I can make, for people who need nutrition. It’s pretty darn wonderful and pretty spectacular. Thank you. It’s great. I never had that before in 10 years of practice – I never really met somebody I could sort of connect with and trust with, sending my patients to – a high integrity professional people who are going to treat your patients the way you would.
Debbie 53:02
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Well, we’re honored to do that for you. And our practices are close together, which is great. – about 10 minutes from each other.
Wendy 53:19
If you’re local – we want to encourage you to reach out to Kris, and we’ll put a link in the bio to where people can connect with you.
Kris 53:31
Thank you guys for that.
Debbie 53:33
You’re welcome. We’re so happy to have you for being one of our tribe. So yes, I
Kris 53:38
Love it. Very proud of that. Thank you.
Debbie 53:41
So that wraps up this episode of Navigating Nourishment. We hope you find our discussion helpful and inspiring.
Wendy 53:47
Your health and wellness journey is a marathon, not a sprint. Remember small, consistent steps over time can lead to significant, lasting changes.
Debbie 53:57
If you enjoyed this episode, please share, subscribe, rate and leave us a review, because your feedback really helps us reach more people.
Wendy 54:06
You can follow us on social media for more tips, updates and inspiration. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram at Nourish Coaches.
Debbie 54:15
For more resources and information, visit our website at nourishcoaches.com and there you’re going to find some show notes, additional articles, links to other shows and podcasts and resources that we talked about today.
Wendy 54:27
Thanks for joining us today. Stay nourished, stay healthy, and we’ll see you next time on Navigating Nourishment.
